Strategy my boy!

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Strategy my boy!

Postby Doc 42 » Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:41 am

You have to fight a dragon.
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To make things more simple, we'll say: This is the dragon

How do you do it?
What weapons and armor do you bring?
What tactics do you intend to do?
Do you bring any companions?
What is the efficient gear you could kill the dragon with?
Can you do it solo or with a whole army backing you up?

--
Kicking things off, equipment wise, you'd probably want to bring along a shield to at least give you a chance against that nasty dragon fire, otherwise you'd be toast before you get close. For the same reason, it would probably be a smart idea to make sure you're wearing fire resistant clothing and armor but you'd probably have to avoid metal armor. You can't risk being slowed down too much, especially when the armor itself provides little protection against such a massive beast.

Weapons get more difficult. A spear seems like the natural choice, allowing you to stab away at vitals and ward the dragon's vicious jaws away from you, but a spear can be broken, or get embedded in your foe and stuck, without striking a fatal blow. Considering the creature is completely organic, your best bet might be a large slicing weapon like a katana, try to inflict as much damage and pain as possible.

On the other hand, is it even possible to fight and win against such a powerful foe without firearms?
Obviously bringing a machine gun to the fight would make it a cinch but the point of this is to determine the most minimal equipment that could be used, bringing an army of medieval warriors should be considered less investment than a single contemporary or futuristic weapon

(Feel free to throw in suggestions for the next foe and so forth)

Whoever has the best combination of weapons/tactics (chosen by whoever picked the opponent) gets to pick the next creature. You don't have to immediately pick a winner if you feel there's more to be debated
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Re: Strategy my boy!

Postby Kiryu Gwangi » Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:21 pm

Won't need the armor. I can take the fire. The only weapons would be my fists, and I could try to disable the dragon's limbs through armbars and such, whilst dazing it with some well placed roundhouses. I could handle the fight by myself, a whole army would be overkill. For the next foe, I'd suggest something smaller and faster, like say a Utahraptor or anything semi-aquatic, like a crocodile.
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Re: Strategy my boy!

Postby Giratina93 » Sun Aug 18, 2013 2:10 am

Ignoring Kiryu's suicidal tactics, a shield and some solid, yet lightweight armor is a MUST. Those flames are dangerous, and a shield is the best thing to keep thema way from out, outside of some crazy dodging. sturdy, yet lightweight armor can help if the beast hits you, thus being the line between injured and death.

As for weapons, lance would be the obvious bet, but unless you want it stuck, then better go for something with some more sharpness. Hammer is lolbad, fists are suicidal, and a nice sharp blade that can get to the bone is what is needed here, if such a thing were to exist. And with a group to help distract and divert the beast, it could be easier... unless the dragon just takes to the skies and nukes everything. Meats and traps could also help, so long as you haven't caught its attention already

As for a next opponent, perhaps a giant scorpion, or a manticore.
Last edited by Giratina93 on Sun Aug 18, 2013 2:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Strategy my boy!

Postby Godzilla Forever » Sun Aug 18, 2013 2:11 am

Kiryu, shut up. Seriously. He's not asking for you snippy badass response. He's saying what you'd use if a Dragon WAS REAL, what would you use to kill it.

For me, I'd probably go in with something that resists heat very well, but won't get extremely hot and burn my skin like metal. Maybe firefighter's clothes or a hazmat suit. For a weapon, it depends. For a close-range weapon, I'd definitely go with a spear or maybe a Claymore, so I can stab it without getting super close. Though with a Claymore, you'd be able to defend yourself better in the event poking it to death didn't work, or the tip broke. If we're talking about ranged weapons, I'd go with a rifle or a shotgun. A Rifle can shoot out its eyes or something, and wouldn't need to get close to inflict damage, while a shotgun would rip its softer tissues apart once you got close enough.

For a new opponent... let's go with a Hydra, eh?
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Re: Strategy my boy!

Postby Doc 42 » Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:10 am

Kiryu, I imagine the dragon would either melt you, eat you, or laugh and crush you into the dirt with a single well placed punch. Unless you're the Hulk fists wouldn't work very well.

I don't see why a hammer would be too bad a choice. It would be very effective against the dragon's (probably) tough skull. A lance would be good if you had a mount, but then there'd be the risk of your horse (or whatever) bolting in panic. As is the fantasy norm, the shield would probably be the only way to take on the dragon fire, without modern technology or magical assistance.

If you had firearms I'd say it was a foregone conclusion; this particular dragon doesn't look very well suited to taking cover.

Lets put a little more structure on this, I think Gira took the best approach so we'll let him set up the next foe, and then we'll consider how best to take that on.
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Re: Strategy my boy!

Postby Giratina93 » Sun Aug 18, 2013 3:26 pm

I had the best approach? Sweet...

Now for our next opponent...

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A giant, 40 ft long scorpion!

Once again, the same rules apply in this fantasy setting.

How do you do it?
What weapons and armor do you bring?
What tactics do you intend to do?
Do you bring any companions?
What is the efficient gear you could kill the scorpion with?
Can you do it solo or with a whole army backing you up?

Now a scorpion is a vastly different entity than a dragon, and requires a different approach. what worked well against a dragon, doesn't work well against this arthropod. A shield and lance are not gonna be too useful here, seeing as the scorpion could easily pry them our of your hands. That heavily armored body it has is going to make most standard medieval weaponry highly inefficient , or just bounce off. bringing a group with you might be helpful, but the scorpion's many weapons allow it to handle a group far more easily, and a single sting is more lethal than a claw strike. Is there anything that would allow one, or a group of people, to realistically take on such a formidable beast?
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Re: Strategy my boy!

Postby Kiryu Gwangi » Sun Aug 18, 2013 3:54 pm

Right from the start the stinger is the primary threat, and possibly the target you'd need to take out first. I'd say powerful enough explosions might stun the scorpion long enough to blow up it's tail. I'm not sure if it would shy away from fire. If it would, then a couple of flares might distract it and allow you to pelt it with explosives. Explosives really would be the best option here, as they could be strong enough to blast through the armor. You'd also need to make sure you're always at a safe distance and away from the scorpion's claws.
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Re: Strategy my boy!

Postby Mr. DNA » Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:10 pm

Right off the bat, I can tell you that medieval melee weapons will be having a really tough time getting past that chitin, especially given the scorpion's size. The only reliable way I can think of is if you were to plant your spear into the ground if the scorpion charges and allow the animal to impale itself using its own body weight and momentum. But even that is a risky move, and I'm not sure scorpions are the charging types in the first place.

If we're talking medieval, I'd go with either a roman ballista or the (ironically named) roman scorpion. It depends on how fast the scorpion is and the strength of its armor. If slow moving and/or heavily armoured, I'd pick the ballista. It's a siege weapon after all, and the bolts it shoots are a good 4 to 6 feet long. Perfect for smashing into there scorpion's armor. The scorpion (weapon) is smaller, faster, more accurate and easier to use, but I'm not sure if it would have the same penetrating power as a ballista. I'd use it for a faster and/or less armoured scorpion.

If we're talking modern weapons, I'm sure an RPG would do the trick. :wink:
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Re: Strategy my boy!

Postby Doc 42 » Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:48 pm

Such a massive beast, this is an easy fight really.

Solo:

Clothing: Light leather apparel that won't rip.
Spiked climbing gloves
hardy boots
A leather cap

Weaponry: A medium sized warhammer, 4 javelins and 2 steel stakes.
These weapons might be heavy, but are offset by the light armor.

Mount: An unarmored, saddled warhorse.
The javelins could be carried in one of the horse's bags, reducing the weight you have to carry if you dismount.


There is little need to worry about armor, it should be too slow and cumbersome to ever hit you, and if it did, armor wouldn't do much for you.

Going solo, I would use a mallet and a steel stake to kill this monster. I would also bring javelins to weaken it and anger it prior to moving into close combat. By riding a horse, I would simply maneuver around the scorpion, into it's blind spot and then through the use of spiked gloves, attempt to leap/climb onto it's back. Because of it's tough armor, it wouldn't notice you, even as you stand on it. Once you're on it's back, it's a simple matter of climbing towards its head and finishing it off. I would try to identify wherever it's brain or central nervous system might be, plant the stake into the nearest groove in the chitin, then hammer it in.
The stake should be enough to kill the beast, or drive it into painful convulsions, where it would probably end up injuring itself by virtue of it's colossal size.

Group

Composition
About six horse mounted warriors
2 distracting, 3 attacking in close, 1 in reserve
Equipment
Each warrior would carry a compound bow with a quiver of arrows as well as a saber.
2 would also carry spears and 2 others would carry some rope

With a group the fight would be simple. Several mounted warriors could tackle it quite effectively without having to risk mounting it. One pair of warriors would distract it with bows and javelins, while the others would move along it's flanks and attempt to hack it's legs off with their swords. Once it loses it's ability to stand, the warriors could use lances and spears to subdue and finally kill it.

If necessary, rope could be used to help retrain the monster.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Both of these plans revolve around just how slow a scorpion of that size would be, especially with tougher than normal armor. It would lumber along, and it's claws and stinger would be heavy and cumbersome. It would find it very difficult to land a hit on it's attackers, and with every miss, risks causing serious damage to itself if it hits something hard.

If an attacker were to roll out of the way and that stinger crashed down on hard rock, it would probably smash itself apart. Thanks to it's numerous legs, its turning would be incredibly slow; and with so much weight baring down on those spindly legs, it wouldn't take much to cause them to buckle and completely undermine the scorpions stature.
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Re: Strategy my boy!

Postby Turbo Tyrannophonic » Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:09 am

Honestly, the claws aren't as formidable as people might think. From personal experience (Emperor Scorpion pet for a while) and general observation I can say that, unless the prey in question is extremely small, scorpions rarely use their claws for offensive purposes. They simply lack the dexterity to pull **** apart, and their claws are hardly blades, so its unlikely they'd be able to slice right through flesh. Something that size could crush your limbs without realizing, but this is assuming heavy armor might be involved. Claws would position you for a sting, but probably little else.

In my case, that's probably how it would go. Use thick armor, and wield a heavy two handed axe. It would be extremely risky strategy, because you wouldn't be able to evade it for long, but if done correctly it could make for an easy win. Scorpions don't usually have their claws directly in front of their face in a defensive maneuver unless they are actually under attack. Their claws are usually positioned in front of them and to the sides, exposing its head/mandibles.

If you, in your battle, were to approach it enough to get its attention, and stop moving, it might just come right up to you without taking necessary caution. Because the carapace is so thick, even something like an axe would only go so far; it definitely wouldn't take a chunk out with one swing, and you don't have the luxury, in most cases, of hacking it like you would a tree.

So if you were to wait until its right up on you, not yet aware you are edible/a threat, you might be able to brain it with the axe. As I said, you might only get one shot with the axe, and it won't inflict massive damage to exploit later. But it probably would cut deep enough to hit the brain; you just have to aim carefully.
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Re: Strategy my boy!

Postby Giratina93 » Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:19 am

Whoa whoa whoa. Hold the phone for a second. Where is everyone getting the notion of this scorpion being super slow? I swear, the Monster Movie Fans are just shaking their heads in shame at this point... This is a fantasy setting, like Clash of the Titans. The scorpions in CotT were fast and deadly. Imagine this scorpion being like that. That's what I had in mind, and perhaps I should have stated that at the start. But yeah, this thing ain't some slow, cumbersome thing ready to collapse at any second.

That said, I am really liking both Doc and Mr. DNA's strategies. Unless someone is going to suggest an even better idea... it's going to go to one of those two.
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Re: Strategy my boy!

Postby Doc 42 » Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:23 pm

As you make things bigger, you make them less and less agile. As you scale something up proportionally, it's weight increases much faster than it's strength. You end up with twice as much strength carrying 4 times as much weight. That's why insects are capable of surviving such relatively violent impacts where as a dinosaur could cripple itself for life from even a minor trip.
Basing on that, I sort of assumed it would be slower, especially considering you mentioned that it had extra tough armor.

Also I was confused as to its actual size. You mention 40 ft, but is that with or without the tail curled up?

You can't really have something of that size, moving at fast speeds, with armor that tough, so physics isn't much use here. Your only option really is to out-god mod it.
So I suggest bringing some sort of giant axe is which is as light as an ordinary great axe, but twice the size and with a blade 3 times as sharp, Monster Hunter style, and just hacking it to bits. You have to be careful to dodge it's tail, but as soon as you get into range, your axe should cleave right through it's claws and allow you to cut its face in two.

Without resorting to magic weapons, I'd probably bring a shotgun or a grenade launcher, and put it down the traditional way.
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Re: Strategy my boy!

Postby Giratina93 » Sun Sep 08, 2013 2:00 am

How the hell do I keep forgetting all this stuff?

While Doc has the more sound strategy, I do find TT's "High Risk, High Return" idea a lot more fascinating. in the end... I went with that, so TT gets to choose out next monster.
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