Bullfighting...

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Postby Evil Eye » Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:55 am

No problem at all.

I'm sure there is a petition for it, but I dunno if it's "official".
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Postby TyrannoTitan » Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:57 am

Doc 42 wrote:Open to debate.
It all depends on how important animals are to someone. Personally, I think it's a bit hypocritical to eat an animal but then tell someone else that it's wrong to kill said animal. You could argue that food is a need, unlike entertainment, but can you honestly tell me one needs bacon to live? That without hamburgers you'd die? Some meat is simple food, a good dinner, a need, however, many meat products are luxaries as entertainment are. One fullfills someone's greed, the other fullfills someone's blood lust.
In this modern day and age, nobody NEEDS to eat luxary meats, the same way we do not need murder and killing for entertainment.


You do realize that they get A LOT of parts from cows, pigs, chicken, etc etc? Its not JUST for things like hamburgers/fast food, nor is it for fancy restaurant meals. Sometimes its basic things like spam and eggs or something. Its still much more productive.

The animals to be slaughtered are USUALLY killed in relatively humane ways, and for a productive cause. Bullfighting is just for stupid people who want to watch an animal suffer for hours and eventually die. There's a very big difference between food and entertainment, no matter how necessary it is. Entertainment is never necessary, and entertainment that comes at the expense of another living creature is just sick.
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Postby Evil Eye » Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:00 am

There's a lotta truth to that, however, you are indirectly wrong in one part I think TT.

You said they're killed in relatively humane ways in slaugherhouses. While that's true, their living conditions are far worse than the bulls in Spain. They literally stand in piles of their own sh*t, and dont have room to move or anything. and it gets worse.

Guess all I'm saying is that acknowledging that one is bad does not justify keeping the other in practice.
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Postby TyrannoTitan » Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:06 am

I'm not saying that slaughterhouses are all OK, there are many that kill their livestock in very brutal and painful ways, but its generally frowned upon by the government, who monitors these things. There are many many things they could do to help stop these things, but at the very least most kill in a quick and painless way.

And honestly, with the "standing in their own sh*t bit", what do you expect? They have to mass produce these animals pretty much. They can't give them individual care and space, it wouldn't be cost effective. Its sad yes, but after all they are animals that aren't really that effected by living near their own filth (Cows, pigs, etc).

I am by no means saying its OK, all I'm saying is that if anything would change in a slaughterhouse, it probably wouldn't be the animals' living conditions.
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Postby Evil Eye » Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:08 am

Why shouldn't they?
There are farms out there where the cows roam freely enough, graze on GRASS, which they were meant to eat, not CORN, among lots of other things.
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Postby TyrannoTitan » Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:17 am

Because those are farms, who usually produce things like milk, calves to sell, and eggs. These are businesses that mass produce products. Its very unlikely they would limit their business so much.
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Postby Evil Eye » Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:21 am

Those farms produce the meat the same way, along with the other things.

Did I also mention, when one animal gets sick in a slaugherhouse, they put the medicine in a tub of their water, and feed it to ALL the cows? All the cows that we eventually eat?
So we get meds when we don't need them, and immunity to diseases is lowered because of that, and everyone complains that the meds dont work.

Along with the fact that those animals are pumped with growth hormones to make them grow big and fat, which are also ingested by us?
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Postby TyrannoTitan » Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:30 am

Again, I'm not saying that slaughterhouses are fine. My point was that improving the conditions they are kept in is the least of their concerns, as sick as it is. They are being attacked for inhumane killing, the growth hormones like you said, the conditions in which they store the meat etc etc.

Once again going off topic though <_>
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Postby Evil Eye » Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:36 am

I think it's somewhat relevant to the topic, as Doc said, if you can support one, why not the other.

But yeah...
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Re: Bullfighting...

Postby Evil Eye » Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:33 pm

Something along the same lines, that goes on behind the scenes...
http://www.ringlingbeatsanimals.com/bound-babies.asp
That's f*cking horrifying. Again, torture of animals, in a far more literal sense, just for our entertainment.
Send a message to the USDA here to help get it stopped.
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Re: Bullfighting...

Postby PeacefulChaos » Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:06 am

Bullfighting IS awful.. If it's not enough that the animals are being brutally killed over tradition, people are hurt as well.

Let me get on my soap box for a minute.

There's a difference in killing animals for tradition and for food and products. You'd be surprised as to how many parts of an animal are used; everything is used. Everything. I'm not going into detail (yeah, it goes that far, seriously), but, every part.

Now, the same argument can be made about "needing" meat. If we didn't "need" meat, it wouldn't be something to occur naturally in nature. I've heard the saying "Everything in moderation". In other words, don't go absolutely crazy in what you eat or use. Moderate the amount BASED on the given circumstances (and now, the species, endangered or not). That's the problem, right now, IMO, with slaughterhouses and why it may seem hypocritical to some. We need to do exactly that- Moderate ourselves. This goes for anyone who's anti-slaughter as well (PETA, dude. Enough said). Moderate your actions, going insane on the guy who ate a cow doesn't make you any better!

(and that is the difference between humans and natural killings - we generally want more and more and more - animals eat what they need to. Not saying we need to start living like animals, but that's why when humans get involved, the general order gets upset)

The reason why I say moderation is the problem, is, well, the idea of MASS CONSUMPTION, basically. Or, in not as blunt terms, growth hormones and causing animals to get so fat their legs break. That's also a problem meat wise. If an animal is put under severe stress for a significant amount of time before it is slaughtered, the meat is not good quality at all and tough. The best way to honor an animal when it is killed for food is not wasting it and respecting it while it is still alive.

And many people do not know this - one type of animal slaughter has, in fact, been banned here in the US. Let me know if you see horse meat in your supermarket, Americans. It's not there. There is a ban on horsemeat in the US since around 2002. So, not all animals are in fact slaughtered for human consumption.

All most people seem to be asking is not for an animal to be put under unnecessary stress with the bullfighting, much like slaughterhouses, unless you're a vegetarian, obviously. Bullfighting and several other practices around the world are known for this kind of mass killing going on- Japanese hunting dolphins, Spain's bullfighting, and probably others. Unnecessary killing is not generally accepted. (Also, note, how everyone says about wasting food- but if you really want to view it this way, the Spanish bullfighting is potentially wasting food)

EDIT: LOL, oh god, I'm sorry if this is considered off topic. Forgive me. D:
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Re: Bullfighting...

Postby Godzilla Forever » Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:18 am

Holy sh*t. I'll never look at the circus the same way again. Consider it signed.
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Re: Bullfighting...

Postby HorseGal » Sat Feb 05, 2011 8:09 am

I have heard that after the bull is killed, it does get used for consumption. There was also news about this a few months past, about one part of Spain that had banned bullfighting. It has been banned in part of northeastern Spain.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/07/ ... 0277.shtml
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Re: Bullfighting...

Postby Godzilla Forever » Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:05 pm

Yeah! it actually kinda sorta worked!
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Re: Bullfighting...

Postby Evil Eye » Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:36 pm

PeacefulChaos wrote:There's a difference in killing animals for tradition and for food and products. You'd be surprised as to how many parts of an animal are used; everything is used. Everything. I'm not going into detail (yeah, it goes that far, seriously), but, every part.

When they're throwing parts of the cows' hooves into the burger mix, I'm not so sure that's a good thing. I'm assuming you're talking about the more eastern parts of the world though, where what they eat would be considered... "exotic".

Now, the same argument can be made about "needing" meat. If we didn't "need" meat, it wouldn't be something to occur naturally in nature. I've heard the saying "Everything in moderation". In other words, don't go absolutely crazy in what you eat or use. Moderate the amount BASED on the given circumstances (and now, the species, endangered or not). That's the problem, right now, IMO, with slaughterhouses and why it may seem hypocritical to some. We need to do exactly that- Moderate ourselves. This goes for anyone who's anti-slaughter as well (PETA, dude. Enough said). Moderate your actions, going insane on the guy who ate a cow doesn't make you any better!

(and that is the difference between humans and natural killings - we generally want more and more and more - animals eat what they need to. Not saying we need to start living like animals, but that's why when humans get involved, the general order gets upset)

I don't think most activists actually want people to stop eating meat altogether, including PETA. Now, IMO, extremists on any side are stupid, (especially) including the ones who think eating meat should warrant the death penalty, or sh*t like that.
That said (and I'm not trying to go to any extreme here, just stating a fact), humans don't actually need meat, whatsoever. The human body isn't designed to eat it; we have small canines, and teeth generally not structured for it, and a digestive system the size of a two story building.
The problems with slaughterhouses do go pretty far beyond that, but yeah, you're absolutely right there.


The reason why I say moderation is the problem, is, well, the idea of MASS CONSUMPTION, basically. Or, in not as blunt terms, growth hormones and causing animals to get so fat their legs break. That's also a problem meat wise. If an animal is put under severe stress for a significant amount of time before it is slaughtered, the meat is not good quality at all and tough. The best way to honor an animal when it is killed for food is not wasting it and respecting it while it is still alive.

And many people do not know this - one type of animal slaughter has, in fact, been banned here in the US. Let me know if you see horse meat in your supermarket, Americans. It's not there. There is a ban on horsemeat in the US since around 2002. So, not all animals are in fact slaughtered for human consumption.

And it's not only that, but WE consume those hormones, chemicals, and medications every time we eat one of those. Don't exactly know what you're trying to get at with the second part.

All most people seem to be asking is not for an animal to be put under unnecessary stress with the bullfighting, much like slaughterhouses, unless you're a vegetarian, obviously. Bullfighting and several other practices around the world are known for this kind of mass killing going on- Japanese hunting dolphins, Spain's bullfighting, and probably others. Unnecessary killing is not generally accepted. (Also, note, how everyone says about wasting food- but if you really want to view it this way, the Spanish bullfighting is potentially wasting food)

EDIT: LOL, oh god, I'm sorry if this is considered off topic. Forgive me. D:



HorseGal wrote:I have heard that after the bull is killed, it does get used for consumption. There was also news about this a few months past, about one part of Spain that had banned bullfighting. It has been banned in part of northeastern Spain.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/07/ ... 0277.shtml

Yeah I remember seeing it on the news that Barcelona ( :D ) had banned it, not sure how many others followed suit.
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Re: Bullfighting...

Postby PeacefulChaos » Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:47 pm

About using every part of an animal.. I am NOT talking human food.. At all. This is all I'm going to say- I have a dog, and some exotic things are actually very healthy for them, but would.. disgust some people. That's all I'm going to say.

Lol.. I don't like PETA.. Same with the Humane Society of the US.. if I need to be completely honest, but.. not looking to get off topic, I'd rather continue this conversation in PMs yes? :P

True about human digestive system. All I mean is, it wouldn't be natural SOMEWHERE in there if it wasn't possible for us. I mean, it's more natural than flying a plane. There's a difference between a flying human and a human eating something IMO.

Circuses are also the worst offenders. They seem to be so inviting and child friendly, but behind the scenes it's a warzone. I refuse to go a circus. I haven't in years, and I still keep to that.
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Re: Bullfighting...

Postby slashmaster101 » Thu Mar 31, 2011 2:28 am

i never did because of the animals poor health which you could visibly see
I don't know how much I can take
The secret thoughts inside me wake
I've lost what was within me
Oh sweet insanity- Disturbed, Perfect Insanity.

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