Bullfighting...

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Postby Evil Eye » Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:12 am

G4E: If they just beheaded it I wouldnt have much of an issue with it. It's the way they kill it, along with the way they raise them, that I'm against.

HF: No other animal tortures for entertainment.
And what you said about football and sports isn't really relevant. None of the players get scalped while still alive, among other things. When they do get injured, it isn't intentional. Bullfighting isn't a sport by today's standards.
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Postby TyrannoTitan » Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:44 am

Again though, what gives us the right to judge them?
We don't have to watch the bull being killed, the same way someone else doesn't have to support meat products.
We call them sadistic, they call us greedy or something, life goes on. At least the bull gets to fight before it's killed.


Every morale fiber of our being gives us the right.

We can't just go "Oh, its their culture" when a country slaughters a household of innocents for sport. Just because they have a deranged sense of amusement does not make their actions ok. Whether you think burgers and other meat products are absolutely needed is irrelevant. They are still made for a useful purpose: food. Granted, we aren't using every bit of the animal like we should, but its MUCH better then torturing and killing it for entertainment.

And yes, killing is a part of nature because nature demands it. If a lion doesn't hunt, it dies. If another pride shares its territory, the strain on resources would kill them all. Therefore, it must fight. Bullfighting isn't essential in any way, shape, or form. It is simply a way for us to enjoy the torture of an animal. I would say that it could be a human in that place, but GUESS WHAT? It once was, in the form of gladiator combat during the era of Rome. Its just we progressed to the point that it became inhumane. Most the world believes bullfighting, too, is uncivilized and sadistic. But there are always countries who resist this for whatever god-awful reason.

In my opinion, there's nothing that can justify it. It is not the same thing as acquiring food. We are NOT animals in the mental sense, we cannot justify our horrific actions by claiming that they do it. We have the ability to BE civilized, and people who promote things like this are just pushing us back to the stone age.
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Postby Godzilla Forever » Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:56 am

As I stated earlier: There's a fine line between killing to eat and murder.

Bullfighting is murder with a bunch of sadists who say it is fun to watch. Killing a cow to eat is so you can put it to good use.

Sure it gets to fight, but would you prefer a swift death by slit throat or stabbing, posioning, cuts, disembowelment, and then death? That's the point of this arguement. Is it equal to kill for fun as it is to kill for food? No. If you think it is, think about this- would you let a murderer run around because he says "killing is fun and I let them fight back"? Or would you rather hear him say, "I killed him because I was starving"? Neither are very fun to think about, but at least the second guy did it out of an attempt to survive instead of he felt like it.
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Postby Doc 42 » Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:57 am

I do not think the need/lack of for a burger is irrelevant. Entertainment has value as well as food.
I simply don't agree that one should impose their values on others.
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Postby Godzilla Forever » Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:59 am

Doc: Why not? Isn't that what forums are for- to talk about things that are important to you?
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Postby TyrannoTitan » Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:07 am

Doc 42 wrote:I do not think the need/lack of for a burger is irrelevant. Entertainment has value as well as food.
I simply don't agree that one should impose their values on others.

If your values are sadistic and blatantly wrong, yes, they deserve to be told so.

Entertainment is a luxury. Food isn't.
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Postby Evil Eye » Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:14 am

Exactly. TT nailed it on the head.
We don't need entertainment to survive; moreover, we don't need killing to be entertained.
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Postby Godzilla Forever » Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:19 am

Do video games count as violent entertainment? I mean, you're not actually hurting anyone..... if I saw the stuff they put in some games in real life, I'd be tramuatized.................
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Postby Evil Eye » Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:22 am

That could be said for movies too, I'd be pretty sickened if I saw SAW in real life (no pun intended :P ), but I don't see the point you're trying to make? O.o
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Postby Godzilla Forever » Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:29 am

Saw's disgusting and it's fake.

I was wondering if games count as violent entertainment. If so, I feel like a hypocrite...........
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Postby Evil Eye » Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:35 am

and God Of War is real.

They don't count as violent "entertainment" in the same way bullfights do.
No one actually dies because you played the video game, or watched the movie.
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Postby TyrannoTitan » Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:42 am

Exactly EE. I've played violent video games for years and years, but I am very much against animal abuse, such as bullfighting.

To be honest, violent video games are a fine alternative, because you really aren't hurting anything. But some people fail to differentiate between what's a game, and what's real.
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Postby Godzilla Forever » Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:43 am

Okay.

unless it's a snuff movie, which I don't think exist outside people's idiotic minds.
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Postby Evil Eye » Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:46 am

Well, honestly, I think it's bullsh*t (no pun intended again) when people say they dont want their kids playing GTA or something because they'll want to become the person in the game IRL. They desensitize you to violence, that's about it.
Assuming that's what you meant by failure to differentiate.

Whoa.

I really am the master of hijacking my own threads aren't I?
O.o
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Postby Godzilla Forever » Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:59 am

You should change the title to "violent entertainment and bullfighting".

And all the violent games actually made me more sympathetic to those who have endured violence........ they might have endured some of the things that occur in the games. :shock:
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Postby TyrannoTitan » Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:01 am

No it was just a brief change of subject, related to the matter.

But I do believe we should stay on topic...
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Postby Evil Eye » Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:06 am

One last small off topic comment on G4E's post, sorry...
People probably endure worse. In the COD4, you get shot, and either magically heal, or fall over and die.
In real war, you
a) get your arms blown off
b) get your legs blown off
c) get your arms and legs blown off
d) find yourself holding your own stocmach and intestines
e) die through a combination of all of the above.
Take your pick :P
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Postby Doc 42 » Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:44 pm

you cannot really count the majority of meat products as 'needs'
Fast food is a luxury, to the point where it becomes detrimental to your health.

Also, video games are the natural evolution of our more violent instincts. Its wrong to kill in real life, so we imagine it instead :P

If your values are sadistic and blatantly wrong, yes, they deserve to be told so.

Open to debate.
It all depends on how important animals are to someone. Personally, I think it's a bit hypocritical to eat an animal but then tell someone else that it's wrong to kill said animal. You could argue that food is a need, unlike entertainment, but can you honestly tell me one needs bacon to live? That without hamburgers you'd die? Some meat is simple food, a good dinner, a need, however, many meat products are luxaries as entertainment are. One fullfills someone's greed, the other fullfills someone's blood lust.
In this modern day and age, nobody NEEDS to eat luxary meats, the same way we do not need murder and killing for entertainment.


On an unrelated note: Why is it always down to me to provide balanced arguement? :P
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Postby Evil Eye » Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:46 pm

As I've already said one hundred times, in both the case of slaughterhouses and bullfighting, it's NOT THE KILLING ITSELF THAT'S THE PROBLEM. Goddammit.
It's the way they're killed.
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Postby Doc 42 » Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:48 am

I apologise EE, things got kinda off topic.
I guess your completely warranted in that situation. It is a shame there isn't a petition to get rid of Slaughter houses, or at least stop the more barbaric practices.
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