US soldiers charged with killing innocent civilians for fun

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Postby Evil Eye » Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:19 pm

Tyrannosaurus Titanus wrote:No. Someone kills someone else, they get sent to prison, where they are given a nice cushy life with 3 square meals and a living being leeched from tax payer dollars. A murderer shouldn't get such a good life, confined or not.

My foot.
I repeat, who made you god to say whether or not someone else deserves a good life?
What makes you think every murder is some serial killer, devoid of emotion, pulling the trigger in cold blood? There are plenty of other factors involved in plenty of murders. Hell, circumstance alone causes them.

Honestly, Im contradicting myself now I suppose... But taking away their freedom is fundamentally no different from taking their life.
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Postby Godzilla Forever » Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:22 pm

Doc, the problem is that some people that commit crimes have no lfie oustide prison. They can't do anything, have no home or money, and no one wants to hire an ex-con. So what do they do? Get into trouble again so they can live in prison. There, they have food, water, a bed- what do they need the outside for? THAT is the problem with constant troublemakers. One time trouble makers still have hope. Cosntant ones don't have anything but prison in their lives, so they NEED to go to prison. Or they starve to death.
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Postby TyrannoTitan » Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:30 pm

My foot.
I repeat, who made you god to say whether or not someone else deserves a good life?
What makes you think every murder is some serial killer, devoid of emotion, pulling the trigger in cold blood? There are plenty of other factors involved in plenty of murders. Hell, circumstance alone causes them.


If you take another's life, for no reason, you deserve nothing but death. Period.

Again, there's a big difference between killing an innocent and killing a murderer, or in self defense. I'm aware there are circumstances where it wouldn't be their fault.

"Whether or not someone deserves a good life". What the actual f*ck? These are MURDERERS. Who made them god to say whether or not their victims could live? Eye for an eye. Best philosophy ever.
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Postby Evil Eye » Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:30 pm

Rehabilitation is also possible in more cases than not. That's the problem with this whole judicial/justice system. It's based on petty vengeance, rather than rehabilitation. With that, it just comes down to the accuser wanting blood, evidence/reason or not.
As for the rest, there are ways of dealing with extreme cases.
Oh, and the other thing... it's kind of hard to revoke a sentence on someone that's been executed...
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Postby Godzilla Forever » Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:34 pm

@ EE: Yes, we all know there are mistakes. But nothing is perfect. You can't expect everyone to be convicted correctly all the time, unfortunately. And if you're a murderer, I don't think you can rehabilitate them as you could a drug or alchohol addict. Like animals, once they taste blood, I don't think you can take them back.
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Postby Doc 42 » Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:36 pm

Actually, EE, I believe the problem is that its stuck between the two and doesnt know which to go for.


G4E, what?
I addressed both of those points. Infact, I ONLY addressed those two points. Those two points were the entire focus of my theory.
That there be a Punishment Term and a Rehabilitation Term
The Punishment Term, for *Shock and horror* Punishing people
The Rehabilitation term, for helping them reintergrate with society
People wont want to hang about in prison if it means living through hell.
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Postby TyrannoTitan » Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:37 pm

Evil Eye wrote:Rehabilitation is also possible in more cases than not. That's the problem with this whole judicial/justice system. It's based on petty vengeance, rather than rehabilitation. With that, it just comes down to the accuser wanting blood, evidence/reason or not.
As for the rest, there are ways of dealing with extreme cases.
Oh, and the other thing... it's kind of hard to revoke a sentence on someone that's been executed...


Most of the time, the reasons behind murder are selfish or petty in themselves. You can't kill someone and go "I WANNA CHANGE. REALLY." F*ck that. You made your bed, now sleep in it.
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Postby Godzilla Forever » Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:40 pm

But once they get outside, doc, they are labeled an ex-con and no one will hire them now. Where do they go now? they have no food, probably no hoem outside a family member's, and no one trusts them anymore. Now what do they do? Go to prison.
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Postby Evil Eye » Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:42 pm

Tyrannosaurus Titanus wrote:
Evil Eye wrote:Rehabilitation is also possible in more cases than not. That's the problem with this whole judicial/justice system. It's based on petty vengeance, rather than rehabilitation. With that, it just comes down to the accuser wanting blood, evidence/reason or not.
As for the rest, there are ways of dealing with extreme cases.
Oh, and the other thing... it's kind of hard to revoke a sentence on someone that's been executed...


Most of the time, the reasons behind murder are selfish or petty in themselves. You can't kill someone and go "I WANNA CHANGE. REALLY." F*ck that. You made your bed, now sleep in it.

Not true really. In fact, it's not quite the minority of cases that are petty or trivial reasons, but definitely not the majority.
The article here being the huge exception, of course.
You also didn't read what I said before. It's not always just someone murdering another in cold blood... you'd be surprised how many times it's just the opposite of that.
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Postby Godzilla Forever » Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:46 pm

Like, say, SELF DEFENSE? Which almost everyoen agrees is perfectly acceptable? Or, maybe a vengance kill? Which is still technically a murder, you know......
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Postby Evil Eye » Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:47 pm

Godzilla Forever wrote:Like, say, SELF DEFENSE? Which almost everyoen agrees is perfectly acceptable? Or, maybe a vengance kill? Which is still technically a murder, you know......

Self-defense, yes. Vengeance kill, by this system's standards, no.
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Postby TyrannoTitan » Sat Oct 02, 2010 12:04 am

Evil Eye wrote:Not true really. In fact, it's not quite the minority of cases that are petty or trivial reasons, but definitely not the majority.
The article here being the huge exception, of course.
You also didn't read what I said before. It's not always just someone murdering another in cold blood... you'd be surprised how many times it's just the opposite of that.


People don't get life for accidents. If it isn't an accident, or in self defense (Or some other similar situation) then they deserve death, no matter the reason.
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Postby Evil Eye » Sat Oct 02, 2010 12:09 am

Tyrannosaurus Titanus wrote:
Evil Eye wrote:Not true really. In fact, it's not quite the minority of cases that are petty or trivial reasons, but definitely not the majority.
The article here being the huge exception, of course.
You also didn't read what I said before. It's not always just someone murdering another in cold blood... you'd be surprised how many times it's just the opposite of that.


People don't get life for accidents. If it isn't an accident, or in self defense (Or some other similar situation) then they deserve death, no matter the reason.

That's exactly where your incorrect. There are situations other than the two you mentioned, and serial murder just for the sake of killing.
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Postby TyrannoTitan » Sat Oct 02, 2010 12:11 am

Evil Eye wrote:That's exactly where your incorrect. There are situations other than the two you mentioned, and serial murder just for the sake of killing.


You should prooobably explain, instead of being vague. Your argument isn't looking so good because of it.
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Postby Evil Eye » Sat Oct 02, 2010 12:16 am

Tyrannosaurus Titanus wrote:
Evil Eye wrote:That's exactly where your incorrect. There are situations other than the two you mentioned, and serial murder just for the sake of killing.


You should prooobably explain, instead of being vague. Your argument isn't looking so good because of it.

Indeed, probably :P
What I mean is... take this instance, for example: this kid grows up in the slums or some gang-ridden place, born to unwealthy parents who fight and may even have to kill to survive, etc. He grows up all his life doing the same, around violence and whatnot, so he doesn't know, even if not lawfully, then morally, that it's wrong.
That was kind of a bad example, but I'm ******* tired and cant think of better right now D=<
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Postby TyrannoTitan » Sat Oct 02, 2010 12:21 am

Nothing can justify taking the life of an innocent. Not even a bad upbringing. Such a thing either destroys you, or makes you stronger. One means you're weak, the other means you can survive in this world.
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Postby Evil Eye » Sat Oct 02, 2010 12:24 am

Tyrannosaurus Titanus wrote:Nothing can justify taking the life of an innocent. Not even a bad upbringing. Such a thing either destroys you, or makes you stronger. One means you're weak, the other means you can survive in this world.

Yes, a bad upbringing very much justifies it. You're just being hard-headed now. It has nothing to do with being weak or strong, really.
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Postby Godzilla Forever » Sat Oct 02, 2010 12:30 am

EE, it doesn't matter. YOU STILL KILLED SOMEONE. Are you going to let them get away with a killing because of how they were brought up? That's how anarchy and tribal heirarchy starts up again. It's like what goes on with crazy people...... they plead insanity, fine. Doesn't change that you killed someone. You have a warriro gene. Fine. Doesn't change that you killed someone.
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Postby Evil Eye » Sat Oct 02, 2010 12:51 am

Godzilla Forever wrote:EE, it doesn't matter. YOU STILL KILLED SOMEONE. Are you going to let them get away with a killing because of how they were brought up? That's how anarchy and tribal heirarchy starts up again. It's like what goes on with crazy people...... they plead insanity, fine. Doesn't change that you killed someone. You have a warriro gene. Fine. Doesn't change that you killed someone.

Yes, it matters. You haven't apparently known anyone that's been brought up in ways I described. In cases, it can be completely and entirely the parents' fault.
Warrior gene? What the f*ck? Do you have any idea what your talking about?
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Postby Giratina93 » Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:03 am

Murderes... those sick, twisted ****ards deserve the death penalty completely for taking innocent lives... an eye for an eye... or, even better, give them a fate worse than painless death... give them suffering, to make them realize that what they did was the wrong choice.

But, for a moment, let's consider why they'd do such a thing. becuase to them, there are no moral absolutes. What's true to the Afganistan innocents they killed isn't necessarily true for the soldiers, or so they think. Truth, to them, is not absolute... everyone has their own version of truth. That kind of view is horribly wrong, but alas, tis the prevailing view of the late 20th/21st century... I HATE PEOPLE WHOM KILL OTHERS FOR FUN! sheesh... they remind me of Zaroff from The Most Dangerous Game, whom hunted other people for fun and becuase normal animals failed to amuse him.

Just my two cents on the issue
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