Evolution VS Creationism

[SuperNerd]

i go to catholic school and i belive in eveloution. i think god helps push it along but i thinks its wrong to say theirs no god

[Evil Eye]

Why would you say that...
you know what? i say there is no god, what'll you do about it...

[SuperNerd]

i say i respect your belives but i think their is a god

[Doc 42]

You said that it is wrong not to believe in god. Therefore, disrespecting his belief. An apology would be more fitting than just contradicting yourself

[SuperNerd]

yeah i take back my last statement about how it is wrong to say theirs no god. I'm sorry if i offended any one

[chook151]

I am sorry If I offend anyone but seemingly god was only told of about 4000-5000 years ago. there are many other religions telling completely different stories. Plus When someone portrays god as a human making the world, grow up man. If there is a god he wouldnt look like us. If it is said he created BILLIONS, err i mean GAZILLIONS of animals and plants before the human race even started.

I beleive that there might be a god, but it cannot be proven.
Plus i think the single celled organisms ancestors came from mars.
Yep, mars. they found water on mars. the single celled organisms could have lived there and been transported to other planets via gravity disturbance(new planet being made.); earth being the most suitable environment.
So i beleive our MEGAancestors were aliens, SUPER primitive ones, About a 100000000000000years ago

[Raptor Llama]

I am sorry If I offend anyone but seemingly god was only told of about 4000-5000 years ago. there are many other religions telling completely different stories. Plus When someone portrays god as a human making the world, grow up man. If there is a god he wouldnt look like us. If it is said he created BILLIONS, err i mean GAZILLIONS of animals and plants before the human race even started.

I beleive that there might be a god, but it cannot be proven.
Plus i think the single celled organisms ancestors came from mars.
Yep, mars. they found water on mars. the single celled organisms could have lived there and been transported to other planets via gravity disturbance(new planet being made.); earth being the most suitable environment.
So i beleive our MEGAancestors were aliens, SUPER primitive ones, About a 100000000000000years ago

1.Actually, Jesus was born only around 2000 years ago, and the bible goes even further. The final book hasn't even happened yet!

2. Umm... the bible says we were created in his image, so... no.

3. And plants and animals existing before us means what?

4. Your alien theory... it doesn't mean anything. It could just as well happened on earth. It doesn't prove/disprove anything.

[TyrannoTitan]

But, the fact that the Bible was written so long ago, or at least the events described did, that it can NOT be taken seriously by someone who needs evidence.

Its as unreliable as a person only claiming to see Bigfoot. Could he have seen it? Sure. Did that mean he was perfectly reliable? No.

For all we know, a group of people wrote the Bible and created Christianity just to feel powerful themselves.

No offense to any who believe, I'm just saying...Using the Bible as "evidence" is a losing battle.

[SuperNerd]

i agree because im a catholic but i dont belive every every thing in the bible

[Evil Eye]

well in my religion one does not contradict another...
our sacred texts talks about how fish went on to whales, who turned into the turtle, frog, dog, something, ape, etc
so to put it in very simple terms, our religion belives in evolution

[The Kingpin]

though i try as best as possible to keep out of this argument as it's pointless with everyone having a different opinion to just go on and on and on about what you think and ram it down others' throats, one little comment stood out for me here:

1.Actually, Jesus was born only around 2000 years ago, and the bible goes even further. The final book hasn't even happened yet!

Final book? and i'm assuming you failed to notice the appearance of the Qur'an 600 years after the Bible, with alot of VERY similar information in it, to the point it's almost an Expanded version of the Bible? [on a side note, we can't really say the prophet Mohammed [Peace Be Upon Him] wrote it, since he couldn't read or write, and the whole social situation at the time negates the possibility of others writing it for him]

[Raptor Llama]

though i try as best as possible to keep out of this argument as it's pointless with everyone having a different opinion to just go on and on and on about what you think and ram it down others' throats, one little comment stood out for me here:

1.Actually, Jesus was born only around 2000 years ago, and the bible goes even further. The final book hasn't even happened yet!

Final book? and i'm assuming you failed to notice the appearance of the Qur'an 600 years after the Bible, with alot of VERY similar information in it, to the point it's almost an Expanded version of the Bible? [on a side note, we can't really say the prophet Mohammed [Peace Be Upon Him] wrote it, since he couldn't read or write, and the whole social situation at the time negates the possibility of others writing it for him]

No, I have never heard of Qur'an, but I'm not quite sure if you got what I said. It was pretty bad phrasing, so let me explain. I'm talking about the final book in the bible, Revelation. It is a prophecy book, and my statement meant that the prophecies in it have not yet occurred. If you did know what I was talking about, I'll need some more information, because I don't see how it relates to the prophecies of revelation not yet happening.

[C S]

Jesus CHRIST (No irony meant)

RL, Revelation ISNT part of the Bible, it's why it's it's own book.

And further more, as I've heard, it was written by an almost insane person who was hiding in a cave for some reason

now, lets get this thing back on track

Evolution was proven, as seen in a documentry released on the Eve of Spore, which proved beyond a doubt that the species that came and went were the product of adapting species and mutations.

Creationism: "God made everything. Want proof? Read the bible, it's got some gooooood sh*t"(even though the Earth is more than 4.8 billion years old, contrary to christian faith)

[Raptor Llama]

RL, Revelation ISNT part of the Bible, it's why it's it's own book.

Really? Then you really don't know what you are talking about do you.
The bible is separated into books. It is like chapters, but since the book is so long, they call them books. They are not literally books, just called books. Each book has chapters, each chapter has verses. Got it? Now revelation is one of those books in the bible. It's the final book in the bible. At the end of the new testament. Oh, and there's two testaments, new and old. Then each testament has books and so on. Revelation is book of the bible, but not literally a separate book. Got it? Therefore, your statement is not true at all. Now sometimes they publish books from the bible separately, but they are still a part of the bible. If your confusing another book called revelation with the book from the bible, that's great, but it really has no purpose to the argument.

And further more, as I've heard, it was written by an almost insane person who was hiding in a cave for some reason

I really don't know what you are talking about, because it was written by a perfectly sane guy living in a house. He was just a profit. No cave whatsoever.

Evolution was proven, as seen in a documentry released on the Eve of Spore, which proved beyond a doubt that the species that came and went were the product of adapting species and mutations.

Ok, a documentary will not prove/disprove anything. I saw a documentary that I and others think proves creation? Will it prove it to you? No. Will your documentary prove it to me? No. It all stands only if the person who is for it watches it. To get proof, you would need to get a time machine and go back a few million/thousand years and see what happened with your own eyes. And that's not happening anytime soon, probably not happening ever.

Creationism: "God made everything. Want proof? Read the bible, it's got some gooooood sh*t"(even though the Earth is more than 4.8 billion years old, contrary to christian faith)

How many years the Earth has been around is a theory, not a definite fact. Nothing is ever going to make these theories proven, and that's why you need trust. If evolution was definitely proven, it wouldn't be a theory, it would be a law. Is it a law? No. Will it ever be a law? Not unless you get a time machine, as I said.

Also, there's also time. Evolution has only been around around 200 years. The bible has been around for thousands of years. The believe in the Hebrew God has stood the test of time, while other beliefs, like Greek or Egyptian religion, have faded away. Now we have fun with Greek mythology, and some want to have Christianity to be the same, but simply, Christianity was around during Greek times. If it's lasted that long, that probably means it's not the same as the others.

Although you're all going to probably (no, definitely) find something to argue with in what is said here, go ahead, because I'll find an equal amount of fault in what you say. Well, just don't try to argue with what I first said about revelation, because if you grab any bible and look at the very back (unless it's some catholic bible) you will find a book called revelation. And you will noticed it's separated into books. If you deny that, then I really don't know what to tell you. That's like saying there's no chapter 30 in a 30 chapter long book. And that's just stupid.

[Evil Eye]

why should the bible be any evidence? there are other sacred texts too, and all religion really started as was a a way to explain the unexplainable...

[TyrannoTitan]

Ok, a documentary will not prove/disprove anything. I saw a documentary that I and others think proves creation? Will it prove it to you? No. Will your documentary prove it to me? No. It all stands only if the person who is for it watches it. To get proof, you would need to get a time machine and go back a few million/thousand years and see what happened with your own eyes. And that's not happening anytime soon, probably not happening ever.

Errr, what?

Lets look at Darwin's book, the original start of Evolution. This all started when he went to the Galapagos Islands, mainly by accident, and began studying the animals. What did he find? Animals that were common on the main land, but were COMPLETELY UNIQUE on the island.

Example, finches. He discovered a TON of finches, which are common in other parts of the world. But these finches had narrow beaks for picking through holes in bark, they had large beaks to crack nuts, they were ALL finches, but ALL had different methods of getting food and generally surviving. They aren't a different species, mind you, they are very much finches. But they are finches never, EVER seen on the mainland.

They EVOLVED to ADAPT to the ISLAND. There's your damn proof.

How many years the Earth has been around is a theory, not a definite fact. Nothing is ever going to make these theories proven, and that's why you need trust. If evolution was definitely proven, it wouldn't be a theory, it would be a law. Is it a law? No. Will it ever be a law? Not unless you get a time machine, as I said.

Why the f*ck would a scientific fact be a law? Laws are rules set by a government, nothing to do with science or the history of the earth. If you mean "Law", as in the "Laws of Physics", then how do you explain cell division? Photosynthesis? Those aren't laws, but they still happen.

You know about dinosaurs, yes? Well, same thing. The way paleontologists determine what period (Cretaceous, Jurassic, Triassic) the dinosaur lived in, is from the ROCKS they found it among. There are different rocks and other geographical features that point to each period.

This applies to dating Earth; they find the oldest geographical feature, like rock or some kind of mineral, and can give a rough guess (Not a f*cking theory, just because they can't give an EXACT date doesn't mean they don't know) of how long Earth has lived. Its like cutting down a tree and counting the rings, but with rocks and minerals.

Also, there's also time. Evolution has only been around around 200 years. The bible has been around for thousands of years. The believe in the Hebrew God has stood the test of time, while other beliefs, like Greek or Egyptian religion, have faded away. Now we have fun with Greek mythology, and some want to have Christianity to be the same, but simply, Christianity was around during Greek times. If it's lasted that long, that probably means it's not the same as the others.

The Bible was a fabrication of events that explained the unexplainable. People fear the unknown, and "God did it", back then, was good enough for them. They didn't have the technology to know how Earth was formed, how there are many different animals, and all of that, so others explained it via religion (Which was the center of life back then), just by saying "God did it." Ask any priest why Adam and Eve were not inbreeding by a few years. I'll tell you his answer: God doesn't want you asking that. Why do you think religious fanatics attacked early star gazers, and philosophers? They didn't want them disproving what they had believed so heavily in.

Well, there's your proof. I'm sure you will say either Darwin is crazy, the entire scientific community is crazy, or every geologist in the world is crazy or wrong, but that's common with Creationists...

[Evil Eye]

im with you 100% TT, we really dont need proof anymore, it is a fact now, go read up about Ernst Mayr RL, then come back here...

[Raptor Llama]

Ok, sorry man, but you messed up A LOT. I know this is skipping around, but I'm going to start with you thing about the laws.

ROFL COPTER. You thought I was talking about government laws? Hell no. THINK! Have you ever heard of scientific laws? Like the law of physics? Things that have definite proof? Do some research. Search scientific law to understand what I'm talking about. Please, I've had some misunderstandings, but this one takes the cake. PLEASE use general logic, if we are talking about science and I say law next to theory, what do you think I'm talking about? And if you don't know about scientific laws, well, good luck with that. Well, there's nothing more to say about that.

Now, your first argument about the finches:
I've heard it all before. But now your saying that's proof? Now that's proof for natural selection, but not the whole thing. You see, you need to be able to differentiate natural selection from evolution as the whole theory. Natural selection obviously happens. If a man goes from Florida to the alps, if he stays there long enough, his lungs will adapt to get in some air. Same with the finches. They stay in an environment that has hard food, and they have soft beaks, they will get hard beaks. But evolution takes that to the next level. It says that's how the Earth was created. It says that's how all species were created. You'd be lucky if you got a subspecies from natural selection, let alone a species. It's like saying that with toy car wheels, you'll move a real car, using the idea that if a small car can move with wheels, why can't a big one? Darwin blew his own findings way out of proportion. He just made an educated guess that natural selection could be applied for the existence of every living thing. Note an educated guess, not definite proof. So, evolution=theory, natural selection by itself= fact.

Okay, now for your final argument, in explaining the unexplainable:
Evolution is the same exact damn thing: explaining the unexplainable. Sure, it's agreeing with science and such, but it's still the same general idea. Now, you might be interested that now I have several arguments against your Adam & Eve arguments. Now, imagine it. The first living beings on Earth, made perfectly. Perfect health, as good as it gets, flawless. It says Adam lived like 900 years or something. To CS's argument a while back, about bones not doing so well, and the effects felt when people are 40, these people are perfect, no genetic glitches or flaws, so life expectancy is much higher and the bones last much longer. So, when they give birth, their children are less perfect, because genetic glitches. But they are still quite healthy. So less glitches when with brother/sister. But People are getting worse and worse. If we didn't have medical technology, life expectancy would be much, much lower. As generations go on, it only gets worse. But, the bible never even mentions Eve having any daughters. One of her sons just goes off and finds some. Assuming they were not born from Eve, it is quite possible that god did, in fact, create more people. Happy now? No, in fact, your furious. I mean, this is the opposite of evolution. In evolution, things get better and better. Improvement. However, evolution is trial and error. As in, many mutations are harmful, not helpful. Which is quite the point. Mutations very rarely produce something positive. And even if it is, the chances of it being passed on aren't even 100%. It is very unlikely that random mutations got us to where we are today. Most likely, if they did, we would be very dysfunctional. Natural selection isn't even the same thing as random mutation. They are two separate things. Mutations happen when glitches occur in birth, natural selection occurs when someone is placed in an incompatible environment. And it's not randomly mutating, it's doing it very specifically. And it usually isn't passed on, unless you stay in the incompatible place. And don't expect a ball python to adapt to Antarctica's climate. It will die before natural selection can help it.

That took pretty long to type. Now I have to see what I missed...

[Evil Eye]

but eventually that pythons species might adapt...

[TyrannoTitan]

Why the f*ck would a scientific fact be a law? Laws are rules set by a government, nothing to do with science or the history of the earth. If you mean "Law", as in the "Laws of Physics", then how do you explain cell division? Photosynthesis? Those aren't laws, but they still happen.

^ Me. KP pointed out the brainfart, I corrected it. Bye bye main argument. It depends on the actual scientific theory, whether it is a "Law" or simply a fact. Gravity is a constant factor, Physics is a constant factor, they are in a class all their own. One brainfart =/= you are completely right.

I've heard it all before. But now your saying that's proof? Now that's proof for natural selection, but not the whole thing. You see, you need to be able to differentiate natural selection from evolution as the whole theory. Natural selection obviously happens. If a man goes from Florida to the alps, if he stays there long enough, his lungs will adapt to get in some air. Same with the finches. They stay in an environment that has hard food, and they have soft beaks, they will get hard beaks. But evolution takes that to the next level. It says that's how the Earth was created. It says that's how all species were created. You'd be lucky if you got a subspecies from natural selection, let alone a species. It's like saying that with toy car wheels, you'll move a real car, using the idea that if a small car can move with wheels, why can't a big one? Darwin blew his own findings way out of proportion. He just made an educated guess that natural selection could be applied for the existence of every living thing. Note an educated guess, not definite proof. So, evolution=theory, natural selection by itself= fact

Natural Selection =/= Evolution. Natural Selection is the passive process of which a trait is favored over another. Evolution is the ability to COMPLETELY ADAPT to a new climate, location, etc etc. You don't even have an idea what Natural Selection IS, and you're still trying to argue...wow...

Natural Selection is a group of black leopards and normal leopards hunt around humans, and have to steal livestock. The black leopard will become the inherit trait because they have to steal livestock at night without being seen. Evolution is if the black leopard grew smaller, had extra sensitive ears, and completely lost the black spots of its counterpart.

Also, ROFL COPTER to you too.

Part of the Biology series on
Evolution

That's the article on Natural Selection. It is a PART of Evolution. And no, I'm not getting my information from Wikipedia, I just thought this was funny.

Evolution is the same exact damn thing: explaining the unexplainable. Sure, it's agreeing with science and such, but it's still the same general idea. Now, you might be interested that now I have several arguments against your Adam & Eve arguments. Now, imagine it. The first living beings on Earth, made perfectly. Perfect health, as good as it gets, flawless. It says Adam lived like 900 years or something. To CS's argument a while back, about bones not doing so well, and the effects felt when people are 40, these people are perfect, no genetic glitches or flaws, so life expectancy is much higher and the bones last much longer. So, when they give birth, their children are less perfect, because genetic glitches. But they are still quite healthy. So less glitches when with brother/sister. But People are getting worse and worse. If we didn't have medical technology, life expectancy would be much, much lower. As generations go on, it only gets worse. But, the bible never even mentions Eve having any daughters. One of her sons just goes off and finds some. Assuming they were not born from Eve, it is quite possible that god did, in fact, create more people. Happy now? No, in fact, your furious. I mean, this is the opposite of evolution. In evolution, things get better and better. Improvement. However, evolution is trial and error. As in, many mutations are harmful, not helpful. Which is quite the point. Mutations very rarely produce something positive. And even if it is, the chances of it being passed on aren't even 100%. It is very unlikely that random mutations got us to where we are today. Most likely, if they did, we would be very dysfunctional. Natural selection isn't even the same thing as random mutation. They are two separate things. Mutations happen when glitches occur in birth, natural selection occurs when someone is placed in an incompatible environment. And it's not randomly mutating, it's doing it very specifically. And it usually isn't passed on, unless you stay in the incompatible place. And don't expect a ball python to adapt to Antarctica's climate. It will die before natural selection can help it.

What the f*ck? You can't just say "Well, maybe he created more people." THAT ISN'T FACT, THAT ISN'T SUPPORTED BY ANY INFORMATION, AND IT'S JUST BULLSH*T.

Typed that big for you to see. Why would god make two people who couldn't even resist the urge to eat an apple, perfectly healthy? And no, for god's sake (Irony), do you know ANYTHING about science? Children are born with inherited traits from their parents. If Adam and Eve were perfect, they'd be perfect, not diseased. We have genetic traits, like heart disease and high blood pressure, that we inherit from our PARENTS. If Adam and Eve were the ancestors of all, then not only would they INBREED, they would be perfect in health. Meaning that we should be perfect in health, besides infectious diseases or viruses.

No, I'm not saying we wouldn't get things like colds and the flu. I'm saying genetically passed on diseases wouldn't exist, and they do. Bye bye Adam and Eve.

Evolution isn't getting better and better, its animals adapting to their surroundings. How do you explain the bones of prehistoric man? Why don't we look exactly like them? GOD DID IT? I think not. Evolution, my simple minded friend.



Hey look, finches. All the same species. All on the same island. Extremely different from mainland finches. Coincidence? I don't think so...